Haters Gotta Hate

by Dick Puddlecote

Haters Gotta Hate About three years ago, I attended an event in London which included some top notch grub and resulted in my being seated at a large table with people I mostly didn’t know.

As you can imagine in such a situation, much of the chit-chat over dinner involved introductions and small talk about occupations and hobbies as we all got to know each other. One of these people was a softly-spoken heavily-pregnant lady to my left, at the time a Conservative Councillor. I remember explaining to her that I ran a transport business and – expecting a negative response – that in my spare time I write a blog about lifestyle restrictions … especially on tobacco. I do like to drop that bombshell into situations occasionally because I find reactions to it very interesting. This lady wasn’t fazed in the slightest, in fact she agreed that tobacco control had gone too far and that the smoking ban was badly-drafted.

I spoke to her at length during the evening as she was a genuinely likeable person and one who didn’t seem to have a bad bone in her body. This was borne out at the end of the meal when I made a dreadful faux pas.

The dessert was an arty affair consisting of a coffee-mug shaped piece of chocolate which contained what I thought in the low lighting was jelly or ganache. Perhaps trying my best to show manners, it didn’t cross my mind to pick the cup up with my fingers, so I cut it with the fork and spoon, resulting in it snapping sideways and sending the contents – thick cherry brandy liqueur – flying through the air and coating the lady’s dress from chest to knee! I wanted the ground to open up and swallow me but while I profusely apologised, she just warmly laughed it off as an understandable accident. A kinder, more friendly and tolerant person it would be difficult to find.

But, apparently, she is now being made out to be a nasty, intolerant and hateful bigot.

A UKIP councillor has said businesses should be able to refuse services to women and gay people, in comments posted on an internet forum.

The Argus reported the remarks made by Lewes councillor Donna Edmunds.

Yes, she is now a UKIP candidate for the EU elections, so Tory HQ is getting stuck in too.

UKIP MEP candidate & Cllr says businesses should be able to turn away women, gay & black people. @UKIP do? Nothing. http://t.co/SdGN1QC2kg
— CCHQ Press Office (@CCHQPress) March 5, 2014

Worried much, CCHQ?

When you read the original article, though, the story turns out to be different from the slavering over-reaction which has surrounded it.

“I believe that all business owners, Christian, Muslim, gay, straight, should be allowed to withhold their services from whomever that (sic) choose whenever they choose.

“It’s their business. Why should they be forced to serve or sell to anyone?”

When asked by The Argus to clarify her statement the EU election hopeful said it would be ok for a shop owner to refuse to serve her based on no other fact than she was a woman, or if service was refused to a gay person.

She said: “I’m a libertarian so I don’t think the state should have a role on who business owners serve.”

Aye, just like it’s wrong for the state to decide that you cannot serve someone.

“I wouldn’t refuse to serve gay people. I’m not saying their position is a correct one. I’m saying they should be free to make that choice themselves.”

This is hardly controversial, or shouldn’t be, because a central plank of free markets is that both vendors and consumers should have equal rights, as the Freedom Association astutely explained today.

The media have seemingly read this as “businesses should be allowed to refuse service to gay people and women”. However, the point isn’t about discrimination towards any “group” but that it should be the property owner’s right to sell his or her own asset in a way that they wish to. If a business owns a particular product, which they’ve bought from their suppliers or produced themselves, then why not allow them not to sell that product to whomever they want to?

It should also be the consumer’s right not to buy from a business, if they choose not to. This can be done for a whole range of reasons and is up to the individual whether they agree with the business practices of the firm in question.

We should live in a free society in which people can choose which shops they visit and, if for any reason they disagree with a company’s policy on a particular issue (whether it be the selling of certain products or an ethical stance), they can go elsewhere. This is the biggest driver for change in business attitudes: if customers leave one business because of their policy/products, then the business has a choice: change or die.

Quite. This is a pillar of free society which has been widely accepted until political correctness jumped in and declared itself the new God.

Those who piled into the outrage bus about this seem to think that laws against discrimination have somehow eradicated discrimination, and that Edmunds is trying to resurrect it.

This is nonsense, of course. Despite the laws we have, I expect businesses discriminate every day, it’s only the ones who declare their honest reasons who will be found out. What has changed is that – whereas businesses can refuse to serve you because they don’t like the shape of your nose if they feel like it, if they are subsequently accused of discrimination on the basis of sex, race or sexual orientation, the law says that they must now prove a negative or face punishment.

What I find most interesting about this, though, is how a law designed to reduce ‘hate’ has panned out for Donna Edmunds.

For expressing a valid theoretical debating point, she is now being attacked and labelled as a hateful bigot. For employing free speech she is now being told to shut up. Despite not being intolerant or bigoted, she is now being forced to prove a negative herself.

But most depressing of all, the righteous defenders of tolerance – the ones who so despise all forms of hate and want it eradicated via legislation – have responded with intolerance, bigotry and vile ignorant hatred of their own against a genuinely decent person instead of calmly debating an opinion which doesn’t agree with theirs. Don’t they remember why they demanded the laws in the first place?

Very sad.S59m0CoTFZ8

17 responses to “Haters Gotta Hate

  1. It’s freedom of contract – pure and simple. Donna Edmonds is number five on UKIP’s MEP candidate list for the South East. I don’t know her personally, but I have a sneaking feeling she is Russian (or Russian extraction I should say). Of course I might be muddling her up with somebody completely different! I just checked out her Facebook page where she has posted a highly offensive message sent to her through the mail by someone who clearly disagrees with her but for reasons which I am unable to discern as their argument seems to consist merely of four letter words and nothing else.
    What line of transport are you in Mr P?

  2. lowlywhisper

    They demanded those laws because it made them feel good about themselves and they feel it gives them some advantage. The real question is why this is the case.

  3. There is a very long back story to this – and I mean “very long”.

    In late Roman Empire law the distinction between private and state started to break down – with private business operations being treated (for various purposes) as just arms of the state.

    This is where legal doctrines of “common carriers” and “public accommodations” (and so on) come from, legal doctrines that the whole “anti discrimination” stuff of modern times is built upon.

  4. Forgot to say – and this is kind of tangential – I saw a brief clip on tv of some religious fundamentalists (Old Testament types) holding up placards on the side of the road saying “GOD HATES FAGS”. (That’s faggots of course, not cigarettes!). How wonderful, I thought, not that I agree with their sentiments, but they have the First Amendment right to say anything they like without fear of arrest. It makes one realise just what we have lost in this country.

  5. The national media are full of leftist scum–and so are the local media. Lots of local paper reporters are uni-trained proggie leftist pricks–looking to create a portfolio of PC shite that might give them a shot at the nationals. Luckily the nationals prob don’t have too long to go–but the rot is at local level also not just national.

  6. Ah the dear “Westbury Baptists” (or whatever they call themselves) – the stuff they shout out at military funerals even shocks the Hell’s Angels (literally – local Hell’s Angels were disgusted by them, they are that bad, and now stand between them and the grieving families powering up their motorcycles so that the families do not have to hear what is being shouted).

    The way to avoid them is to have the burial in a private graveyard – so that they be kept out as trespassers.

    By the way they W “Baptists” are predestinationists – so they do not believe that people have a choice over their actions, so why scream about sodomy (and so on) at the funerals of people who were not Gay anyway, is hard to understand.

    No (come to think of it) it is not hard to understand – their actions are predetermined so it was written in God’s book (from the beginning of time) that they would go to funerals and scream about Fags (and so on).

    I find it all a bit confusing – but it goes back a long way.

    For example, George Whitefield (the “Great Awaking” man of the 18th century who brought slavery to Georgia – slavery was O.K. but Wedgewood china was evil….. I am sure it all makes sense……) was a Predestination man.

    He spent his life (when not brining slavery to Georgia and so on) organising great gatherings trying to convert people – when who would come to God had already been predetermined by God at the start of time anyway.

    Answers on a postcard…….

  7. Hugo Miller

    Yes – Westboro Baptists – I looked them up as I’d never heard of them. Checked out their website – as well as ‘God hates Fags’, they have placards proclaiming ‘God hates Jews’ and a section headed “Bible Verses About The Hatred Of God (for more details, read God Loves Everyone: The Greatest Lie Ever Told)”.
    Sounds a bundle of laughs doesn’t he, their God. I wouldn’t fancy spending eternity in his company anyway.

  8. I suspect that the “God” of the Westboro types has horns and a tail.

    One does not shock “Hells Angels” very easily – and some of them were visibly shocked after meeting the W.B. people.

  9. Well, bikers are a very tolerant, unbigoted lot. I remember the sad death of the MP Stephen Milligan (who was found in the unfortunate position of being asphyxiated with an orange stuffed in his mouth whilst naked and except for a pair of women’s stockings or something similar – and didn’t he have his hands tied or handcuffed as well?). His political ‘friends’ no longer wished to be associated with him and were nowhere to be seen at his funeral. But there were bikers there galore, since he had recently been supportive of their cause. An interesting study in human nature don’t you think? It’s a hard way to find out who your true friends are.

  10. Julie near Chicago

    The lady sounds to me like an actual human person and a credit to her species. Do you think she could be bribed to come over and be President?

  11. Yes Hugo – when bad times come “friends” vanish.

    Normally they do the English thing of saying (to each other and themselves) “it would be upsetting for me to turn up now – they would not want me to visit them…….”

  12. Collectivist scum need what they feel is moral justification for enforcing their will at gun point. They’ve banished God and refuse to countenance Natural Law so’s to avoid having to believe anything except what they want to believe. Because their philosophy is internally self-contradictory and logically impossible they suffer terminal cognitive dissonance and are unable to admit to truth.

    Freedom of association plainly includes being able to not associate if you don’t want to but where would that leave collectivists, who are useless, evil, and capable of achieving nothing except at the expense of others.

  13. Hugo Miller

    I feel sure I remember this lady, Donna Edmunds, who is number 5 on the UKIP MEP candidate list for the South East, made some ‘contentious’ remarks in the past. Can’t remember what it was, but I know it endeared me to her. I think she’s of Russian extraction – I’ll see if I can find out more. Of course I might be confusing her with somebody else….

  14. Hugo Miller

    Found it; – “In 2011 Ms Edmunds was forced to stand down from her role as lead councillor for communications in Lewes after labelling a constituent a “village idiot” on Twitter.”

  15. Lewis used to be famous for being politically “incorrect” – for example on November 5th each year.

    If P.C. doctrine has captured even Lewis – it is difficult not to despair.

  16. Hugo Miller

    Yes, they still burn an effigy of the Pope at Lewes bonfire every year. I’m just amazed the whole town hasn’t burned to the ground with all the blazing processions passing through the narrow streets letting massive firecrackers off in all directions. Great fun.

  17. What is now East Sussex was the last stronghold of Paganism and is supposed to be stiff with witchcraft. Of course my grandparents retired to what is now West Sussex – and what is now West Sussex has always looked with a bit of disfavour on what is now East Sussex, Tall Tales may have become common…..