Something Quick about the Riots

by Sean Gabb

I suppose I should make some comment on last night’s rioting in Tottenham.

Thirty years ago, when we had all those “inner-city” riots, I sided automatically with the police. These were doing their job of maintaining law and order. The rioters were various kinds of scum who deserved a good kicking. After three decades of watching the progressive moral degradation of the police – to the point where almost no one looks oddly at me when I call them the pigs – I don’t feel the slightest sympathy for those shifty, rat-faced goons in blue. My own dealings with them have been confined to a few brushes with el Porco Trafico. Extrapolating from these, and bearing in mind what my friends tell me, and what I read in the newspapers, I do feel much sympathy for the blacks of Tottenham.

That being said, a decent government would have put down the riots with lethal force and kept the streets safe for the respectable classes. But if you suspect that I can’t work out if I hate rioters or the police more, you aren’t far off the mark.

74 responses to “Something Quick about the Riots

  1. The Faily-Mail did not publish my comments: they are here:-

    Comment begins:-
    __”If, as a socialist pollitical-class, desocialise people, reducing them to serfs and uncurious slaves, through “state education”, over years and years and years, then this is what you will get. If Mark Duggan had been properly educated, in proper schools where you learn things, and had been disciplined properly at school and at home as a young boy, he would not have turned out to be someone whose girlfriend (how much closer can you get than that?) was “shocked to learn he was carrying a gun”. Socialists! Hear me! You also are the ones who intentionally created “council estates” – ! – Can you honestly stand up with hand on heart and say that you are surprised that this happens, after everything you have done deliberately to create people like this, and then ghetto-ise them?”__
    Comment ends.

    The problem is that the same Political Enemy-Class that has created the “Police” that we hate now and fear, has also simultaneously created the “underclass” which is uses to fuel “riots” when one of their number, perhaps a more powerful local-warlord than usual, is killed, one who has perhaps fathered more than the usual number of children on more than the usual number of babymothers, and thus gains respect. This kind of young male is what you get when you prevent the socialisation of young boys into Anglosphere liberal capitalist civilisation (whatever Ian B is going to say about the roots of this civilisation for now…at least we didn’t get this sort of stuff in 1912.)

    Perhaps in English liberal society, the creation of the terror-police did not need to come first. The buggers had first to create an existential threat beforehand: not being able to do it through full-corruption of the Old White Working Class, so viscerally-conservative to a fault that it willingly voted Labour for decades, and which now incenses the wannabe-Labour-Nazi-masters by seeming to want to vote BNP or support the EDL. Thus, the Enemy-Class had to IMPORT whole nationhoods which could be easily ghetto-ised, by the application of “diversity” and “multiculturalism”.

    The riots in Broadwater Farm could have been prevented, 30 years ago and also now, by proper monocultural schools, teaching people to be English. And that’s it.

    English People don’t riot. Even if a hoodlum is shot…he was probably up to no good, and would bring trouble on his fellows nearby. In 1300AD, in Tootam-Hames-Heim, a little way outside the far north of London-tun, he’d probably have accidentally woken up dead, after one gig too many, having made the lives of his neighbours a little bit too exciting for comfort.

  2. Sean, I would shoot the rioters – as a certain meerkat said – simples!
    The following brilliant article on the Tottenham riots is taken from

    Passport to Tottenham!
    Is it time to try a movie experiment from the 1940s?
    By Colin Liddell

    Thanks to the Metropolitan Police’s ridiculous policy of appeasement, a large part of North London resembles a bombed out scene from the 1940 Blitz following a night of rioting by the city’s Afro-Caribbean “community.” The riots started after about 300 people gathered outside a police station in the gang-infested area and demanded “justice” following a shooting incident in which a policeman and a suspected gang member were both shot in what appears to have been an exchange of fire.

    Faced by what initially started as a peaceful demonstration, the police responded with their usual “culturally sensitive,” “softly softly” approach of showing sympathy, maintaining a low police presence, avoiding assertive gestures, allowing the mob to vent its emotions, and retreating behind barriers, effectively giving a green light to the rioters and anyone else who was interested to run amok.

    With other emergency services unable to intervene, scores of shops were looted and burnt, while the inadequate numbers of police officers sent to contain the violence were not properly equipped with riot gear resulting in several officers being hospitalized.

    Despite the unfortunate results of this policy and the obvious criminality of a large section of the West Indian “community,” much of the emphasis in the mainstream media has been on rationalizing the actions of the mob as an understandable if regrettable reaction to police shortcomings and attributing all negative actions to a “tiny unrepresentative minority” – the typical hallmarks of the leftist multiracial state in damage limitation mode.

    The truth is that whatever the Metropolitan Police do to police the gun, knife, and drug crime of London’s West Indian “community,” it will breed resentment. Drug-fuelled criminality and gang culture are so ingrained among young West Indians that any effective policing has to involve frequent interactions between the police and this group that can only breed tension and resentment.

    The attempt to eradicate the criminality of the West Indian “community” is problematic for the leftist multiracial state as it essentially involves the imposition of White standards on an ethnic group that clearly has little inclination to accept these standards. For this very reason most of the establishment types have been calling for greater interaction with “community leaders.” This is a subtle recognition of the fact that Tottenham and other heavily Black neighborhoods are de facto independent statelets whose main connection with wider British society is as recipients of welfare and repositories of badly retailed drugs.

    In 1949, a few years after the original Blitz, Ealing Studios released an amusing little film called Passport to Pimlico in which the Pimlico district of London gains independence after an ancient charter is discovered ceding the area to Burgundy. The Pimlico “Burgundians” then connive to turn their state into a free-trade zone for entrepreneurs, crooks, and those eager to escape Britain’s harsh rationing restrictions. The British government then respond by closing the border with barbed wire and cutting off water and electricity.

    With the British state being unwilling to effectively police Tottenham and to effectively cut off its drug trade, perhaps the time is here to try the Pimlico Experiment for real. If London’s Afro-Caribbean population really is a “community,” one way to deal with its White-defined criminality in a way that won’t breed constant ethnic resentment might be to give it its own little statelet based on the area they have clearly marked out as their own in North London. After the Union Jack is lowered, then perhaps we can deal with the crime and drugs that would inevitably flow from that area by closing the border in the same way that the British government did in the film.

    In Passport to Pimlico, the resourcefulness and resilience the “Burgundians” show in their good-natured confrontation with the British government is ironically used to demonstrate how “British” they are. One character, Mrs Pemberton proudly states: “We’ve always been English and we’ll always be English; and it’s precisely because we are English that we’re sticking up for our right to be Burgundians!” Eventually the cultural affinity of the Burgundians with England wins out and the area is reincorporated into the United Kingdom. If the Pimlico Experiment was ever to be used in North London, one suspects that the rupture would be permanent.

  3. It is silly to say you can’t work out if you hate the police or the rioters more. I don’t admire the police when they are enforcing multiculturalism, but in a confrontation between white policemen and the black colonisers of London, there can be only one decent choice. PC Blakelock was worth thousands of the ethnic rioters…

  4. I think this may be the least convincing “rioting” ever. Burning down a carpet shop last night was at least original, but tonight it appears to be, er, mobile phone shop, jewellery shop, chemists, sportswear shops. I don’t think any “rioters” in the history of western civilisation have so obviously gone straight after drugs, clothes and bling.

    I dunno. I don’t think anyone’s fooled, and any attempt to do another Beatification Of Stephen Lawrence is going to fall seriously flat this time around. What was the quote from the girlfriend? “He was involved in stuff but not aggressive”. NIce gangsta, then, heh.

    Of course this just isn’t English is it? Our tradition is for “the girlfriend” to be that ghastly old moll Barbara Windsor, screeching “they lavved their mams, they only dan it to their own!” before heading out nightclubbing with Ronnie “Mad Axeman” MacBonkers, to reminisce about the Good Old Days.

  5. Lokk, I’ve no taste for rioters, but the police are hardly the stern upholders of law and order. Even down here in Kent, they’re little more than an armed pro-state militia. Granted the the man they shot was trash, but killing someone in a mini-cab diesn’t strike me as the sort of policing we used to know in England. Also, they seem to have been shooting each other in the riots, if that story about the bullet lodged in a police radio is true.

    These people are brilliant at enforcing ruling class speech codes, and pulling ordinary people off the road on spurious terrorism grounds. But they obviously can’t even keep a mob of thieves from running wild.

    As I said, lethal force to keep the streets clear of rioters would be appropriate. At the same time, I want to know what was going on before the mob went out of control.

  6. I want to know what was going on before the mob went out of control.

    I imagine they were writing a list of which shops have the best bling, for targeting purposes.

  7. Seems to me that there are four ingredients to this riot:

    1) An unjust and untenable policy of drug prohibition that is bound to bring the West Indian community into continual conflict with the police, as well as providing the basis for profitable gang activity.

    2) Interventionist economic policies that result in continuous mass unemployment.

    3) A multiculturalist state agenda, in which collective grievances are nurtured and individual responsibility is decried.

    4) High handed and overbearing policing, in which protection of life and property are sidelined in favour of elite political goals.

    With these ingredients in place, all that was needed was a bit of blue touch paper and a match.

  8. No time for looters. However, as other blogs have pointed out (EU Referendum) the looters are far less effective thieves than this nations political parasites, who regard anything less than an unjustified payout of less than 200 grand as not worth getting out of bed for.

    As for having had enough of the police, I think that pretty much everyone who isn’t a crawling, gutless, state-owned spittoon has had enough of the police and their arrogant lack of manners and common decency.

    There may yet come a time when many decent people–working and middle class find themselves fighting with the states militia out in the street.

  9. I agree with Michael and Mr Ecks.On balance, I think I was right in 1981 to cheer the police on as they fought to restore order. I had strong misgivings about the policing of the Miners’ Strike. Now, while I’d still like to see a swift and effective response to what amounts of urban banditry, I don’t like or trust the police or their masters.

  10. I have no objection to something like the old Riot Act for dealing with disorder – get a magistrate to read out the Act, and anyone still on the street after twenty minutes is fair game for the authorities. But the police are behaving all over England like an armed pro-regime militia. I got home late from London on Friday night. Deal is a peaceful, almost universally white town. There is no crime worth mentioning. Even so, there were half a dozen drunken youths chasing each other round the Sainsbury car park. Before I’d walked through them – and they were leaving old farts like me alone – there was a policeman screaming at them to disperse and threatening arrests.

    As I walked into the street, I was passed by a van full of officers, come to disperse “the crowd.”

    Certainly, most rioting is seen as a looting opportunity – especially in the outer London suburbs. But the police had just shot a man who was in the back of a taxi. Even granted he was trash, that isn’t how policing used to be done in England. There are also reports of a police bullet lodged in an officer’s radio. Bearing in mind how these people shot that Brazilian on the Underground six years ago, I’m ready to believe anything about their conduct before the mob went out of control. I will also note that all their body armour and all their frightening powers of coercion didn’t help them carry out their most basic function of keeping public order.

    Denouncing what amounts to urban banditry doesn’t get round the fact that the police seem to have done their usual best to lose friends and alienate people in the areas they are supposed to protect. I have read the white nationalist article that DJ posted. Without endorsing any of its detailed claims, I do accept there is a problem of criminality in the mainly black areas of this country. But shooting people as they go about their even possibly dishonest business is not the way to keep order. If I were black, I’d hate the police – and often for reasons that I, as a white native, don’t regard as unfounded.

    Something this country needs after its military coup is a root and branch reform of the police. They seem to have provoked this rioting. They then failed to smother it.

  11. I am just saddened that the proud community of Tot ‘Nam will have to somehow struggle on without this fine young man. A beloved father to numerous children, some of which know him, a devoted boyfriend and guiding light to his community, a man whose door was always open to anyone who sought his company; indeed it is said that everyone who visited his home left with more than they had arrived with. Michael was a “people” person, with a devoted group of friends who he would never avoid helping, however small the crime. One neighbour brushed aside a tear as he described how, “Michael would give you his last fiver. So long as it was for drugs”.

  12. What’s your point?

    Who is , on this blog, saying what a fine fellow Duggan was?

    Does that make shooting him dead under dodgy circumstances o k?
    If you are a bad’ un forget about the rule of law?. Drug dealing alone is not enough to mark him as evil. I never heard of the guy before yesterday and maybe he was a monster in human form but surely the bluebottles with all the resources they have could have taken him down without killing him and setting off a riot. (Suggestion–have a squad of “Ned Kellys”, armoured to such a degree that no handgun calibre could hurt them. They would be cumbersome but lure the guy into a fake “buy” and when he looks up a dozen of them are advancing on him from all sides like a squad of overweight Cybermen. The gun is useless and the man captured.)

  13. Oh, that’s all very well. But is any of this based on evidence given in court? There are better places for arresting a possibly armed man than in the back of a mini-cab. The attempted arrest, so far as I can gather, was simply the pretext for a summary execution.

    For the avoidance of doubt, I will repeat that violent disorder needs to be suppressed. But we must not lose sight of the attendant circumstances of the riot in Tottenham. We pay our taxes. We have allowed ourselves to be disarmed, and we look to the police to keep our lives and property safe. It is entirely appropriate to demand that they should be held to account for any positive or negative faults in the discharge of their duties.

    If we look the other way when the probably gullty are summarily executed in the street, how long before the police start shooting the certainly innocent?

    Oh, but isn’t this rather a late observation? Remember that Mr Waldorf all those years ago? And that black child in 1985? And that man walking through East London with a provocative chair leg in a carrier bag? And that electrician from Brazil? And all the other people whose variously shaded faces have come and gone in our newspapers over the past few decades?

    It is not appropriate in 2011 to respond to these riots as if it were 1981, when we may still have had reason to believe that the police were predominantly honest upholders of the Queen’s Peace. The police are out of control, and it is our right and our duty to withhold support from them until we have a better understanding of what they have been up to in the black areas.

  14. I was lampooning the inevitable hagiographies that follow any newsworthy death.

  15. I suspect that the police were unable to muster sufficient numbers to combat this riot, as officers were probably busy apprehending drivers who’ve failed to pay the congestion charge. After all, drivers are far more dangerous, what with their noxious “greenhouse” gases and so forth.

    Police priorities are a mystery to most of us. Here in rural Lincolnshire, I have heard several comments from people who have been adversely affected by criminal “incidents” (as we must all learn to call them), and yet have been unable to gain the attendance of a single officer (although they always travel in pairs) due to manpower constraints. Despite this, they are quite often able to spare 1 car, and usually 3 officers to man a “speed-trap” in the next village. They would probably argue that they do this because of the primary school situated on the main road, but I think they might have a better case if they were to take up position at either the begining or the end of the school day, and not during the day when the “kiddies” are safely inside!

    To get back to the subject of the riots, I note that the MSM are already claiming that they are a result of the “spending cuts” that have been promised. Personally, I think the rioters do it because a) they feel they can get away with it, and b) they think it’s fun. I say bring on the water cannons.

  16. Google “Lessons of the Riots” by David Ramsay Steele to find an interesting analysis of the riots of the early Eighties.


  17. The Police is totally useless. First they are causing the riots with there stupid behavior and then they are doing nothing to stop it. I live in Brixton. The Police did little to stop the looting last night. And then they shut down Brixton during the whole day, when there was not looting going on anymore, causing a massive disruption to the people who live here, becasue they where not able to protect the few shops that had smashed windows.

    No, if you want to be save you have to protect yourself, which in this country is almost a crime and you certainly don’t have any tools to do that.

  18. Curt Howland

    Why aren’t the private property owners defending their property from destruction?
    Oh, right, forgot. It’s illegal to protect yourself in Britain.

  19. Instead you can now see looting mobs on thousands of CCTV cameras, look how that strategy turned out. This country needs to really wake up about a lot of things.

  20. Curt Howland

    On second thought, does anyone remember the Rodney King riots around 1992?
    The police abandoned the city to the rioters, yet there were places that were not burned, nor looted, nor broken, nor even disturbed.
    Those places were where the owners of private property stood their ground, openly, with rifles. Businesses served their customers, and everyone was safe.
    The police and state government were so disgusted by these simple acts of decency that the “assault weapon ban” was passed soon after, based upon the pictures taken of the individuals defending their property.
    Police exist to protect and defend the State, not the individual. That’s why London burns. Again.

  21. Sean, the riots raise the National Question. It is immigrants against our country. In this circumstance, you have to back the police. It is not an issue about “a police state” or “civil liberties” at all. I unqualifiedly support the use of lethal force against the rioters–I am totally on the side of the police. In this particular case, internal divisions in the British nation have to be dropped: it is colonisers against the nation. You need to back the nation. The issue is not urban banditry either. It is immigration.

    Let’s say the police didn’t attempt to arrest Duggan but just gunned him down – it doesn’t sound like the way the police behave, but maybe they feared he was armed? – that does not justify the riot that started on Saturday. I don’t support summary execution without the nicety of arrest – if that’s what happened – and I take Sean’s point that we woudl be foolish to accept an extrajudicial killing just because the person was black. Having established the point, the police would then be free to adopt it more widely. But the riots that followed – I don’t accept 10 minutes of rioting, never mind days and days of it.

  22. This is a sad situaton, if that was my property I would defend it and say what ever to what happens to me, I agree with thepoloicy’s of the U.S.A you should be able to defend yourself and your property espiecally when the authorities are not.
    This is not democracy or what my forefathers died for in the great wars and I would question where we are going and what we are going to do about it – These people are criminals – They should be treated as so…or deported – I come from a deprived area – everyone has there cross to bear – there is no excuse.
    There has been a problem in ths country for ages and perhaps this will highlight it – I say no to gangs get them off the streets – with the army if need be – (parents could do the same job by teachng there kids and grown up kids a bit of respect)) why should the masses suffer –

  23. Charles Martin

    There is a perfectly simple answer to this – send in the Paras and Marines.
    Give the native perpertrators a minimum of 5 years in jail, the same to their immigrant buddies who should then be deported to the the rock from whence they crawled.

    On a side note, how many native Britons have checked out far-right websites such as BNP over the past 3 days? Plenty, I’ll warrant.

  24. just shoot all the rioters with rubber bullets…..i’d rather it be real ones though!

  25. Put them down with the maximum force and minimum delay.Make the rioters spend their sentences repairing the damage.Deport any immigrants among them.
    One bit of good news-Turks in Kingsland Road banding together to fight the looters.

  26. DJ – Even assuming your general position were correct, your specific demand that we should support the police is wrong. We all have reason to know the police are trash. They have at least collaborated in our disarmament. In every part of the country – not just the black areas – they are behaving like an army of occupation. We also know they have a growing taste for summary execution. They negligently allowed these riots to happen, and have failed to suppress them. They do not deserve our support.

    These riots will burn themselves out or be suppressed in ways over which we have no control. There is nothing to stop us from withdrawing our moral support and for demanding root and branch reform of the police the moment we can get a government of other than traitors.

  27. I agree with Mark. The Turks know how to deal with these people. A shame so many of us are so physically and morally disarmed that we are looking to the police for help.

  28. @mark taha:
    > One bit of good news-Turks in Kingsland Road banding
    > together to fight the looters.
    I am told that Sikhs in Southall did the same. Good for them.

  29. Three cheers for the Turks and Sikhs. I think it may also be worthwhile here to draw attention to a tried and trusted free market alternative to the police and the army. If their stupidships formerly called our leaders would care to shut up and stand aside fully, a curious kind of free market employee known as a security guard could mind the shop with a trusty pump action shotgun and a good supply of shells. Combine that approach with a widely armed civilian population and I suspect we’d see rather less of the poor deprived rioters than is presently the case.

  30. In 1911, Commander Menzies and MI5 were instructed to find the real cause of social unrest. His masters expected the answer “Fenianism.”

    Imagine their surprise when MI5 reported the chief causes as::

    1. The foolish and dangerous ostentation of the rich:

    2. The widespread opinion that the economy was rigged in favour of profiteers and speculators:

    3. The shortage of affordable decent housing.

    Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose…


  31. The phrase “affordable decent housing” strikes me as more recent than 1911. Ditto the use of economy as a reifying noun, and “rigged”. This sounds about as genuine as all the quotes about gun control ascribed by American bloggers to a certain “Adolphe” Hitler.

  32. You have only to Google “foolish and dangerous ostentation of the rich” for a citation. I summarised Menzies’ report to the Cabinet.


  33. Just Googled it.

    No links to any primary source.

    Sounds fake.

  34. Don’t worry about Tony, CH. He’s as mad as a box of frogs. Just be grateful he’s stopped posting excerpts from his erotic fiction.

  35. For that, I am grateful!

  36. Write to MI5, asking them, if you want a direct quote…


    PS: My most recent medical exam pronounced me “perfectly sane; brilliantly intelligent; a really nice person;”

    How many hereabouts can say as much? Smiles

  37. Hollick’s, you posted a quote, with no linkage, no source and which sounds completely fake.

    You are then completely unable to substantiate it in anyway whatsoever.

    How pathetic.

  38. I posted my summary of Commander Menzie’s findings

    I posted directions to a .gov site where corroboration can be found

    I directed doubters to contact MI5 directly

    I feel no need to do any more.


  39. All the links to that phrase merely seem to point back to us and our comment threads.

  40. Wrong.…/bmj00286-0045.pdf


    You didn’t look. That’s a .gov site, isn’t it?

  41. Google “Swedes are fairer” “foolish and dangerous ostentation of the rich.”


  42. So, it is now completely clear that the quote Hollick’s provided was fake.

    It doesn’t exist anywhere except in his own posts.


  43. So now we know that CH Ingoldby can’t read…


  44. The link posted by “anonymous” is all about medical malpractice. It does not seem to have anything to do with the riots.

  45. C H Ingoldby

    It is an article about the Swedish healthcare system.

    All Hollick’s has been able to do to substantiate his fake sounding quote is give an obscure secondary source. If this quote was real he would very easily have been able to give a real link, some real substantiation, instead he suggests that we contact MI5 to substantiate his ridiculous quote for him.

    He’s pathetic.

  46. MI5 would not be very helpful as they are not really anyone’s friend: they may have their uses but I don’t think in this case. And anyway we have not time.

  47. I started these doubts regarding authenticity. However, even supposing MI5 did say what is quoted, so what? We have no reason for supposing this alleged statement was any more right in 1911 than other statements to the contrary. It Tony werre a Catholic quoting the Pope, he might feel some reason for confidence. But we are talking about a government department.

  48. Sean:

    I remember the MI5 finding precisely because it is so contrary to the stereotype.

    I have just written to MI5 asking for a citation.


  49. C H Ingoldby

    The quote is obviously fake. It is also obviously stupid.

    These riots and looting were not about ‘affordable and decent’ housing. They were about people who are deracinated, without any sense of traditional morality, with a sense of entitlement born of generations of the welfare state taking an opportunity to self righteously loot Foot Lockers and Sports Direct.

  50. Now he’s saying he knows better than MI5


  51. C H Ingoldby

    So. a fake, fictious report to MI5 in 1911 should be held up as the lodestar of truth on matters of rioting in 2011?

    How pathetic of you.

  52. MI5 had and has thousands of agents and countless informants to gather facts. That doesn’t make them necessarily right; but it does give them a head start on CH Ingoldsby


  53. Tony, do you realise the harm your doing? Could you just fuck off?

  54. C H Ingoldby

    Horlick’s, quoting a fake. non existent MI5 report from 1911 proves nothing except that you are a fool.

  55. Please take DavidNcl’s advice.

  56. Who is “DavidNcl”?


  57. Advance to Google books

    Enter “foolish and dangerous ostentation” in the search box

    Every book cited confirms what I wrote.

    Now say “Sorry, Tony”


  58. So, we’ve run out of anything to say about the riots!


    “Lessons of the Riots” by David Ramsay Steele

    From “Free Life”


  60. So, fake quotes from 1911 and links to out of date reflections from 1981.

    Hollick’s, DavidNcl gave you very good advice.

  61. CH Ingoldby still can’t read.


  62. What has MI5 got to do with this? How does one “write to MI5”? Who to address? What to say? Interesting, but we were discussing riots in London in 2011.

  63. C H Ingoldby

    MI5 obviously have nothing whatsover to do with this.

    I was talking to a Bangladeshi taxi driver yesterday and he told me that ‘hoodies’ had tried to riot in the small town I live in while I was away in Northern Ireland. There is basically no involuntary unemployment here and no shortage of decent housing. It was purely and simply a matter of looking for an excuse to loot.

    His perspective was that the British ‘youths’ had no idea how good they have it in this country and are used to simply being given everything without having to earn anything.

    I couldn’t disagree and felt some shame at hearing this accurate summation of Britain and British ‘youth’ from an outsider.

  64. To write to MI5:

    Advance to

    Go to the email page

    Complete the form provided, adding your message in the box.



  65. Hollick’s, you’re the one obsessing about an irrelevant, fake quote. If you want to try to substantiate it then get on with it without bothering the rest of us.

  66. Posted in response to Dave Davis’ question.

    I’ve already provided citations for my summary of the MI5 finding.

    You might stop your blatant trolling, Ingoldby…


  67. C H Ingoldby

    Hollick’s,you really should stop sludging up threads with your pointless, irrelevant nonsense.

    No, you haven’t provided a single citation, just wierd random third hand nonsense.

  68. Advance to Google books

    Enter “foolish and dangerous ostentation” in the search box

    Every book cited confirms what I wrote.

    Now say “Sorry, Tony”


  69. Your quote is fake Horlick’s.

    Get over it.

  70. If I weren’t such a homophobe, I’d vote for Starkey as Mayor: provided he appoints Bill Bratton as police commissioner and John Timoney as his deputy.

  71. Sean, if I may be allowed a few personal anecdotes:

    Back in 85 I spent three weeks with some relatives of mine in New York: or more accurately, a satellite town about 25 miles outside NY, on Long Island (Lon Goylan, as the natives pronounced it) – folks there were blue collar types: cops, firemen, truckers bilders, small biz people, with harsh, working class Noo Yoik accents: mainly Irish, Italian or Jewish – aware of their own poor immigrant origins, and also aware of the fairly thuggish criminal elements which undoubtedly existed within their own communities (we’ve all seen “Goodfellas”)

    Almost invariably, their family roots were in inner city Ny: Bronx, Brooklyn etc – a lot of the older folks had been born and raised in pre war Harlem: wern’t one bit shy about telling you why they’d evacuated those areas. All had guns in the house, legally or otherwise. Many of em still commuted into work in Manhatten, or went thre at the weekends to pursue their cultural leisure and sporting activities. In order to do so, you had to run the gauntlet through the inner boroughs: much of the conversation round the dinner table was of the safest (or least unsafe ) way to do so. This was of particular concern to the womenfolk: the idea that an unaccompanied white female could walk, cycle or take a bus through Harlem or the south Bronx at any time of the day or night was considered utterly unthinkable: a mere violent mugging would have been considered the absolute best case scenario, if you get my drift.

    In the 3 week period I was there, an off duty fireman known to my relatives who was moonlighting in his uncle’s bar in the Bronx was shot dead by a bunch of blacks during a botched robbery, an off duty NYPD man from the town returning home shot and killed a black kid who was trying to mug him, a local plumber was shot in the leg as he drove through the Bronx (cross fire, black drugs gangs) a local legal secretary was sexually assaulted by an Afro-American in an elevator during her lunch break, and two black college students out on a day trip from NYC ended up in hospital when they made the near fatal error of walking into one of the township’s Irish bars.

    This state of affairs was considered totally normal by the locals: they just laughed at my astonishment. One morn, I got up bright and early to get the 7 am train into New York, camera round my neck, tourist written all over me. The train came into the station. I got on: was surprised to see that no one else did: was even more puzzled when the only other passengers were a bunch of large, surly, flak jacketed and heavily armed Irish American cops, who seemed equally surprised to see me. One of em asked me where I was headed. I failed to see what biz it was of his, but said: “Penn Central”

    He then said: “You stoopid fuck. Dis is da stoppin’ train.”

    I replied that I was on my hols, didnt have to be there any particular time, and the stopping train was fine by me, as it would give me the chance to take some pix, see the sights, generally do the tourist thang.

    Patrolman O’Leary, obviously realising he was dealing with a retard, then said:

    “Listen kid, dis is da stoppin’ train. Da reason dey call it da stoppin’ train is it makes all da stops. In harlem. And da Bronx. Da niggers are gonna take dat camera off ya an stick it up your dumb white limey ass. Now get off da fuckin’ train an’ wait for da fuckin’ express same as everyone else.”

    I took his advice. What’s the old saying about the UK being 25 years behind the States?

  72. I related this story at a barbecue a few nights later, to general amusement. One of the other guests, a retired Jewish NYPD man ( I mean he was retired from the NYPD, not retired from being Jewish) who had himself been born and raised in Harlem during the Depression said:

    “That officer shows a complete ignorance of the communities he’s supposed to be policing. You’d a been perfectly (poifectly) safe on dat train.”

    The other guests looked at him quizzically, not having suspected him of this level of racial liberalism.

    “Yeah, he went on, completely deadpan: Youda been fine. Da lazy bastards woulda still been in bed at dat time o’ da morning. Now if you’d gone through there at noon…”

    And everyone had a good laugh at the dumb tourist.