I have voted in the European Elections


UKIP, of course – though a monstrously long ballot paper, with about half a dozen UKIP lookalikes near the top of it. We shall see what happens next.

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34 responses to “I have voted in the European Elections

  1. Same here! What struck me was the absurd length of the ballot paper.

    I wonder where the money came from to fund all those little UKIP clone parties. A cynical person might think it would have been a good investment for one of the legacy parties…

  2. When the War Secretariat find out who dunn it, there could be trouble.

  3. Gary Stephenson

    Appalling that the Electoral Commission allowed the other parties to put people up with a name resembling UKIP.

    I wonder what would happen if I stood for the Conservatory Party? Too hot in summer, too cold in winter, overall they are completely useless.

  4. I voted UKIP,too. Like Gary’s idea-although similar things have often been done before.

  5. It was the same in the East Midlands – a lot of fake UKIP parties to try and reduce the UKIP vote.

    The Electoral Commission do nothing for the same reason they do nothing about the various groups and organisations who use the money of taxpayers (provided by the government) to attack UKIP as racist.

    As for how I voted, I will give the answer that so many people have given me in elections since 1979.

    I voted with a cross.

  6. I didn’t get a polling card, so had some trouble finding out where the polling station was. When I eventually found there were eight parties on the ballot paper; UKIP, three lookalikes, Liblabcon and the Greens; UKIP at the bottom. As I believe in the sanctity of the ballot box, I shall not say who I voted for, which was UKIP.

    It will be interesting to see the results, though I presume that if UKIP do well, the EUphiles will say that EU elections don’t matter anyway, with some irony.

  7. Paul Marks

    That was the one mistake the establishment made Ian – not having a UKIP “look-a-like” (as Sean puts it) on the bottom of the paper (as well as near the top).

    Had the real UKIP being stuck someone in the ballot paper (with fakes – both above and below) they would have been utterly sunk. As if is – we shall have to see.

  8. Has anyone any idea who’s behind the these UKIP lookalikes? And are there more clones of that party than of the other ones fighting the election?

  9. Paul Marks

    Rob – in the East Midlands at least one of the clones is officially formed of ex UKIP people who have fallen out with Mr Farage (no doubt it has a bit of unofficial backing also).

    As far as I know neither the Conservative Party or the Labour Party has faced a “clone” problem.

    • Thanks. Parties outside the mainstream seem more vulnerable to infighting and the attentions of disgruntled ex-members.

  10. hugo miller

    “…Had the real UKIP being stuck someone in the ballot paper (with fakes – both above and below) they would have been utterly sunk…..”
    There have been a number of comments along this line. We all seem to believe, rightly or wrongly, that the average voter is pretty stupid. We criticise mainstream politicians for treating the voters with contempt – and here we are doing the same!

  11. I teach.

    You people have absolutely no idea how stupid many, many people have been made to become in their own lifetimes, bu the BritishPolitclaEnemyClass, on purpose.

    I’m referring mainly to the parents here, most of whom are in the age range 20-50. if you ask me about the children, the picture will become blacker.

    Bill Clinton would say: “It’s the strategy, stupid”.

    • Agreed. Too many people have had the relevant tick box in their minds greyed out. This may be genetic decay, or it may be a lifetime of watching the telly. But coherence and even basic literacy are becoming less common than they were.

      • As far as political understanding is concerned, there’s more to it than that. Many genuinely educated and intelligent (by the conventional definition of the word) people have no political insight whatever. Just read the opinions of some educated professional people on UKIP, for instance.

        Most of the big players in the mainstream political parties went to the best schools and were academically successful. Of course, many would say these people understand politics only too well, and that they’re outright knaves. But I’d say many of them are just fools.

  12. Since I don’t live in the UK, I haven’t previously paid much attention to the UKIP talk, but had occasion today to look them up.

    Can anyone explain the attraction UK libertarians seem to have for them? The seem to be … well, national socialists.

    • How national socialists? They don’t like mass-immigration. Most of us don’t. Otherwise, they’re in favour of leaving the EU, stripping political correctness from the law and administration, and a general restoration of stolen liberties. Some of the candidates are a little strange, but policy is decided at the centre, which is influenced by libertarians. UKIP isn’t a libertarian party in any purist sense, but it is less awful than the others.

      • Sean,

        Keep in mind that I am relying on the Wikipedia article on them, which characterizes them as nationalists (not just anti-EU, but anti-libertarian on immigration as you admit), militarists (wanting to increase military spending by 40% and add three aircraft carriers to the navy) and socialists (talking about some kind of fake “voucher privatization” scheme for NHS, but also adding “free” vision and dental exams to socialized health care).

        Is the Wikipedia article inaccurate, or are does “less awful” mean “Oswald Mosley is dead and dammit, neither BNP nor National Front have ballot lines?”

        • Here is an attack on UKIP from an American nationalist magazine. http://www.radixjournal.com/journal/2014/5/21/ukip-and-the-sailer-strategy These people don’t like UKIP because it isn’t what you think it is.

          Turning to the general policies, UKIP is against intervening in Syria and Ukraine. Its liking for a bigger Royal Navy has nothing to do with joining in neo-con crusades. As for increased spending on healthcare, there is no chance of getting even to the corrupted market arrangements you have in America. Since the NHS is here to stay, it might as well be forced to spend its budget on providing healthcare rather than on political correctness.

          It is a respectable position for libertarians to withdraw from electoral politics. However, if like many of us, you want to vote for someone, UKIP is the best thing on offer.

        • Thomas, as an anti-mass immigration party, they are automatically labelled as national socialists. We do have a national socialist party of sorts, it’s the BNP.

          UKIP are far from ideal. For me, they are far too socially conservative for instance, and I’m sure I’d come to blows with most of their membership over issues of sex, drug and rock’n’roll. But they are a phenomenon in being the first party to seriously challenge the party political status quo since the rise of Labour, a century ago and are, at least, somewhat libertarian compared to the two main parties (and the third, sorta-main party). If they shift the Overton Window a little, that’s progress.

          I would characterise them, more than anything, as a populist party. As a populist myself, I find that appealing, even if I don’t actually agree on many things with much of the populus :). Perhaps the biggest problem in our countries at the moment is not specific policy but entrenched Establishments, and UKIP do represent a challenge to that, if nothing else.

          From any flavour of Libertarian perspective, they are far from the best that they could be. But they are what there is.

  13. IanB,

    “as an anti-mass immigration party, they are automatically labelled as national socialists”

    If the Wikipedia article on their platform is correct, they are nationalists and they are socialists. Their anti-libertarian immigration position would seem to be an important part of that insofar as nationalism and socialism are pretty much the only two ways to get to that position.

    • Oh, come on, Thomas – you’re playing with words here. When you put national and socialist together, they equal nazi in England. Whatever else UKIP may be, it isn’t that.

  14. Sean,

    I’m just trying to figure out why UKIP would be considered superior to the Conservatives, or even to the Lib Dems, by UK libertarians.

    Yes, the Nazis are the iconic national socialists. Whether or not things like Auschwitz are inevitable consequences of national socialism per se or anomalies unique to that particular manifestation of it and maybe a few others (Stalinism, for example) but not to other national socialist parties like UKIP in the UK, Le Pen’s gang in France, et. al, is an interesting question.

    • UKIP is to be supported for these reasons:

      It is against the European Union and the New World Order
      It is against the ruling class obsession with war
      It is against the domestic police state
      It wants an overall cut in government spending
      Voting UKIP is a two finger salute to our masters

      I’m sure there are other reasons, but I’m going to bed.

  15. Paul Marks

    Rob – sometimes politicians do not know what is being done in their name (the administrative structure is vast – and largely independent).

    However, sometimes YES they do know.

    For example there is no way that the First Lord of the Treasury (the Prime Minister) and the Chancellor do not know about the “low interest rate policy” (the policy of monetary expansion – that is destroying savers).

    YES it is the policy of the independent Bank of England – but they (the top politicians) know about it and SUPPORT it.

    Therefore they are just as morally responsible for the policy as the Governor of the Bank of England. If they take the credit for the “good” side of the policy (the cheap borrowing for government) they must also take the “credit” for real savers (in the productive economy) being hit.

    And, in this case, the top politicians actually appointed this administrative person.

  16. Paul Marks

    Hugo.

    I found the ballot paper confusing – and I was voting at home (with no hurry-up pressures of the polling station).

    So if I am “showing contempt for the voters” – I am showing contempt for myself.

    By the way in multi member council wards the candidate whose name comes first (say Anderson – Conservative, not Harris – Conservative) always gets more votes.

    You say “showing contempt” – I say 30 years practical experience of elections.

  17. hugo miller

    Just caught up with this thread; UKIP is what the Conservative Party used to be, before it jettisoned every principle except its commitment to EU membership. It stands for individual freedom under the law, minimal government, minimal taxation, support for the Commonwealth and the Anglosphere, and, to quote Sean’s phrase, for ‘leaving people alone’ to run their own lives. The issue of Race, which is of paramount importance to National Socialists, is irrelevant to UKIP. Sounds good to me.

  18. Paul Marks

    Hugo.

    The media (and politicians) flung the kitchen sink at UKIP over the last few weeks with the “racist” charge (every day with many newspapers).

    And it failed – the racism attacked failed.

    There must be a fundamental reconsideration.

    As many are now urging.

    I can not say more at this time.

  19. Free word of advice-do not take Wikipedia as gospel. There have been quite a few Labour splinter parties over the years-in fact,if anyone wants to publish a pamphlet called from Labour to Oblivion..”

  20. hugo miller

    My favourite word – ‘Racist’. I have thought of a plausible definition at last – one who sees the world through the prism of Race. Like the Nazis for example. UKIP as a party couldn’t care less about race, nor can I think of a single Party member who does.
    I did an Open University music course once. One of the lecturers was an avowed Marxist, to the extent that he saw everything through the prism of Marxism. He was a Marxist who happened to be a music lecturer, not the other way round. Thus Twelve Tone or Atonal music is good because all the notes are equal and there is no hierarchy. And the ‘Ode to Joy’ theme from the last movement of Beethoven’s Ninth (the EU Anthem – yay!) is all about the brotherhood of man because it consists of contiguous notes ‘holding hands’, rather than the normal mix of leaps and steps. And so on – everything has to have a political connotation. Thus it is with ‘Racists’ – everything must be seen in a racial context.
    Now I’m waiting for Ian B to shoot me down!

    • I had an English teacher who put me off Shakespeare for life by spending a whole term on finding the essence of Kapital in the scene on the heath in King Lear.

  21. Paul Marks

    Hugo Miler and Sean Gabb.

    It is just awful.

    When will this cultural stranglehold of the demented Marxist cult (and it is a cult) end?