Meetings of the Other Libertarian Alliance


Sean Gabb

We meet on the second Monday of the month at 7pm at The Institute of Education, just off Russell Square – student bar, Room  S16, Thornhaugh Street, London, WC1B 5EA.   

It might be that we need to meet in the Foyer at the front of the building again this month, as we did last month, for Sarah Douglas cannot  guarantee that the buinlders will out of room S16 by Monday, but she hopes that they will.   

On Monday, 13 September Tim Evans will speak on ‘Thoughts on the UK’s Libertarian Movement’     

On Monday, 11th October, Detlev Schlichter will speak on  “Paper Money Collapse – The Folly of Elastic Money and the Coming Monetary Breakdown”.   

 Detlev is a long-standing libertarian who has worked for almost 20 years in the financial industry as a trader and portfolio manager. He has recently completed work on a book of Austrian Economics aimed at an audience in the City and the world of finance.”   

 On Monday, 8 November Anthony J. Evans will  present “A Proposal for Sound Money”   

 All are welcome, admission free. So do come along. DAVID McDONAGH

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15 responses to “Meetings of the Other Libertarian Alliance

  1. I have occasionally visited the LPUK forum,

    They like discussing such things as the need to decriminalise incest.

    Frankly, any group that thinks that is a way to win friends and influence people has got a major problem which is suspect is insoluble.

  2. Andrew Withers (LPUK)

    They like discussing such things as the need to decriminalise incest.

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ??

  3. Their forum seems to be offline at the moment. As soon as it is back i will give you a link.

    I tried to advise them in one thread that arguing for such a policy was asking to be seen as, at best, a bunch of irrelevant weirdos, but was told that i wasn’t being sufficently ‘Libertarian’ and that laws against incest were an unacceptable intrusion of State power on peoples private lives.

    With that sort of attitude i think the best they can hope for is that nobody ever notices them.

  4. Well, I’m not an LPUK member, but I’m all in favour of repealing the laws against consensual adult incest. Protecting children is one thing – but this is done already by many other laws. Telling adults how to live is something else.

    I wouldn’t advise the LPUK to make incest legalisation a big issue in any campaign. On the other hand, intellectual movements are less often destroyed by hostile criticism than smothered from within by timidity and a desire to avoid controversy.

    Imagine this dialogue in a studio:

    You are a libertarian?

    Yes.

    This means you claim to believe that adults have the right to live as they please, and to make such arrangements with other adults as my suit their joint convenience?

    Yes.

    Does this mean you support the right of consenting adults to commit incest?

    Er, er, er…..

    You don’t avoid an issue by not talking about it.

  5. Actually i can think of some good Libertarian grounds for opposing incest, and regardless, any political movement which argues in favour of incest is pretty much doomed.

    It’s a fact that a taboo toward incest is deeply hardwired into peoples DNA and anyone who advocates decriminalising it is going to face deep revulsion that simply can not be overcome with any rational arguments. It is a basic biological part of the human make up.

    To go against such hardwiring of nature is to lose.

  6. Funny, then, that all humans are said to be descended from Adam and Eve; latterly, everyone has descended from Noah’s — ineluctably incestuous — family.

    In the US, the Republican conservative movement is quite heterodox: viz:

    “Going back to the 1960s, the modern conservative movement has been an amalgam of three distinct factions: the champions of free enterprise; the foreign policy types often described as neoconservatives; and the social conservatives who became the spine of the party’s grass-roots campaign apparatus.

    It was a fear of communism that nicely unified all of these groups in the cold war years. The Soviet Union and its satellites were Marxist in their economic outlook, expansionist in their foreign policy and defiantly godless in their culture. Stan Lee could not have dreamed up a more perfect nemesis around which Republicans could coalesce. ”

    Most people seem tolerant of what consenting adults do in their bedrooms: yet incest is far from being the only practice which arouses opposition from a minority. “Race-mixing” still arouses visceral dislike in some people.

    Tony

  7. Seriously, comparing opposition to incest with opposition to ‘race mixing’ is completely wrong. It is an utterly false analogy.

    Incest is a behaviour that is universally a taboo because of deep seated genetic reasons. ‘Race mixing’ has no such genetic taboo, no such potential negative consequences.

    As for only a ‘minority’ being opposed to incest. I think you will find it to be a totally overwhelming majority. Moreover a majority that has been consistently overwhelming in every single culture the world has ever known. To go against that is to go against the inherited (literally) wisdom of the ages. And that means to be a loser.

  8. Incest certainly is taboo in our civilisation. I can’t say even I have toruble feeling indifferent about it. But we are not talking here about a father who rapes his twelve year old daughter. I’ve already said there have always been laws agains this sort of thing. What I have in mind is consensual sexual relationships between adults who are also close relations. I don’t have to feel inspired by such relationships to say that they should be ignored by the authorities.

    Because incest is a taboo, there is unlikely to be that much of it. Certainly, what there is of it is generally hidden unless it is accidentally brought to light. I would never be inclined to go looking for instances of it to punish, or to take notice of those instances that do come to light.

  9. There’s a good Wiki on the subject of incest.

    I try to avoid the error of wanting laws against everything I dislike or disapprove of. Incest is a ‘gradient’ case, where opinions and laws ‘taper’ differently in different societies and contexts. Some cases of incest are more repellent than others. Inbreeding is of course a real problem, but intercourse and breeding are not the same thing.

    Tony

  10. Incest is a taboo precisely because we, as a species, are genetically programmed to find incest disgusting. It is not a cultural so much as a fundamental biological value.

    We may have generally, and inperfectly, divorced sex from reproduction, but that does not alter the total rejection of incest that is hardwired into our beings. Incest is biologically catastrophic (and remember that contraception is imperfect). As such, as a species, any people attempting to form an incestous relations will automatically provoke huge anger and disgust as well as taking very serious genetic risks.

    It isn’t simply a matter of consenting adults, the genetic risks make it a matter which affects any potential offspring as well as automatically raising the hardwired aggressive contempt of other humans.

    Any understanding of hardwired human nature will show that incest will not be tolerated. It is not a choice or learned prejudice, it is part of the fundamental make up of the human species. To try to go against the fundaments of human nature is to try and go against reality itself.

    Where theory and reality come into conflict, it is always reality which is the winner.

  11. To put it a little more simply; any political theory that goes against human nature is going to fail, regardless of how rational and logical it may be.

  12. “To put it a little more simply; any political theory that goes against human nature is going to fail, regardless of how rational and logical it may be.”

    Maybe that’s why Mr. Spock of “STAR TREK” is a Vulcan… >:-}

    Tony

  13. Well, a half-Vulcan, any road…

    Tony